User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:22 pm

Is 2020 the year the tide turned in the struggle for diversity in wargames?

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:00 pm

As with virtually every other hobby and industry, 2020 has been a disruptive year in wargaming, to say the least. Conventions have been cancelled, schedules altered, games delayed, time dilated.

http://www.wargamer.com/articles/wargam ... inclusion/

EMSguy0713
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:40 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:42 pm

Just....no. Forceful diversity isn't diversity. It's mandated control by another name. I've seen so many hobbies go down this path and it never ends well. The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same actions and expecting different results. If diversity exists within the wargaming community than it will naturally flourish and grow. If it doesn't...then it won't. You can't force it.

Swordsman
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:17 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:01 pm

Most wargamers I know (esp. older wargamers) are quite welcoming and open to new ideas. As far as "diverse" games-- ultimately the market decides. If the game is INTERESTING to enough people it will sell. If not, it won't. Let's face it, this is a niche hobby that doesn't appeal to a LARGE portion of the population. This article seems more like a feel-good, politically correct, end-of-year piece to say "look at me, I'm woke!". A solution looking for a problem...

Tinfoil
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:06 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:10 pm

I disagree with what EMSGUY0713 said. Progress is always a good thing, as opposed to stagnation. And progress never falls from the sky; it must be engineered through action. So yes, diversity can and should be encouraged, so that new voices can contribute to the hobby (not to the detriment of the "old" voices, I might add, but to their enrichment).
Me too, I have seen many hobbies go down this path and it always ends well. It's a matter of perspective.

RustNeverSleeps
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:13 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:39 pm

Good Grief. Will the term ???dudes on a map??? need to be changed to ???evil peoples (probably would have been Trump supporters) choosing their gender as male (he/him) and who threaten indigenous humans with overt actions of (including but not limited to): colonialism, misogyny, racism, habitat destruction, and cruelty to animals in order to push their hateful views in nationalism and/or religion???? Coercive actions or trying to create faux-guilt to elicit a desired outcome is nasty behavior itself.

The hobby naturally gravitates toward men. Men and women are different (shocking news!). This doesn???t mean some women don???t like war games and this doesn???t mean all guys do. However, it???s nature. Men NATURALLY like aggressive conflict, on the whole, more than women. I personally have no issue with either a) playing a game with a female if they want to play and b) playing subjects other than WW2 and the Civil War (in fact, I enjoy subjects that are lesser covered). However, keep the woke crap out of games. Cover historical events as factual as possible and don???t sugar coat the things that some may not like (eg: a flag or figures). If this starts to happen, those that currently enjoy the hobby will not support.

If you want make believe, create science-fiction war games. There???s tons of them available and on the market with many that do extremely well. In terms of designers, the great thing about the market is that if it???s good, people will buy it at the right price point. So by all means, if a female (or what is called an under represented group) creates a great game, it???ll be bought and played by a lot of people, myself included. It???s not rocket science and there are lots of resources that already exist to help people that are interested.

ElGato
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:53 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:00 pm

Interesting that you dismiss miniatures wargaming as "expensive" and clearly not proper wargaming in your opinion. As a wargaming practitioner and designer of several decades who has enjoyed their hobby and jobs in a number of different media including traditional board wargames, committee games and miniatures gaming I'm not sure whether I find that suggestion somewhat insulting, pompous or naive.

Moderator's note: Fair comment, the text has been updated.

Jimmietee
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:19 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:31 pm

Your Zenobia link contradicts your article. The Zenobia link clearly states that Wargames come from all walks of life but designers are primarily white male. I suspect from my personal experience and the questionnaires you reference that be the people behind the Zenobia award were lying to align to some agenda. Which means you shouldn???t be referencing them as something of value.

What value will I, a current and long time wargamer, receive through this diversity you envision? Games steered more towards the female player? The lgbt player? What would those even look like. You fail to make me see why I should put rise this goal.

How can you declare that this is of ???paramount importance??? and is required for a hobby I have enjoyed for over 40 years to ???be successful???? I have bought hundreds of games and am SHOCKED to hear how unsuccessful my hobby is.

How do you even write for a hobby you personally consider not successful?

If diverse people want to play a wargame good for them. But why is their playing the most important thing to me? Sad. Sad article.

iruletagames
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:59 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:02 pm

Get the hell out of here with this communist nonsense, or they'll have to make a wargame for this website.

Rino
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:56 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:12 pm

This is the second article with this vibe on this website. After many years i am done with it, I ll go to a different one (there are enough, also not in English, and in anycase better nothing than this), one that doesn't follow and promote this failing and idiotic point of view. Sad, because there are still a couple of authors here that I enjoy and respect.
Last edited by Rino on Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SalDavis
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:47 pm

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:16 pm

Thanks for the shout-out for the Derby House Principles :-)

Professional wargamers agree they are the future. Diversity of thought and experience improve wargame outcomes for everyone. Hobby gamers who lose their minds over the very thought that women and LGBT and black and disabled wargamers have equal value and much (if not more, frankly) to contribute...well, they're only bleating so loudly because they see the tide is turning against small-minded nonsense.

JIMMIETTE: what would games for LGBT women look like? Only the most consequential wargaming in history. Only the reason the Allies won the Battle of the Atlantic (which enabled every other battle of WW2 to be fought). Only the Western Approaches Tactical Unit, staffed almost entirely by women and headed-up by a lesbian who beat Admiral Sir Max Horton (legendary submariner) at his own game, responsible for teaching the navies of every single nation in the world save the Axis powers how to find and sink u-boats. When you've got that much on your CV, we can talk like equals.

    

Return to “Wargamer Front Page Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests